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Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...
Posted by: Steven Rose
Date/Time: 31/12/23 18:49:00

Philippa, it is true that the atrocity perpetrated by Hamas occurred almost three months ago whereas the Israeli assault on Gaza is ongoing. But Hamas have threatened to repeat their murderous  incursions until they achieve their ultimate aim of destroying Israel. Should the Israelis simply wait for the next attack?

Your account of the creation of the State of Israel leaves much to be desired. You refer frequently to the Balfour Declaration of 1917,  but you omit to mention the rather important fact that in 1947 the UN voted to partition Palestine between they Jews and the Arabs, the original two state solution. The UN plan was accepted by the Jewish population but rejected by the Palestinian Arabs and by the neighbouring Arab states. In 1948 Israel declared independence along the lines of the UN partition and the same day it was simultaneously attacked by all its Arab neighbours. In the course of the war 700 000 Arabs fled or were forced to flee their homes and in the aftermath 800 000 Jews fled or were forced to flee their homes in Arab countries. The difference is that the Arab refugees were largely kept in refugee camps by the neighbouring  Arab countries whereas the Jewish refugees were welcomed by Israel and made a new life for themselves. These Arabic speaking Jews and their descendants now constitute over half of the Jewish population of Israel.

The claim that Israel is presently engaged in collective punishment of the Palestinians is not justified. The aim is not to punish the people of Gaza . Indeed the Israelis have tried to warn them of impending attacks (which is more than the RAF did to save German civilians in the Second World War). The aim is to eradicate Hamas, who use the civilian population as shields. The situation is tragic, but what are the Israelis supposed to do? They cannot simply call a ceasefire and leave Hamas in control of Gaza, ready to strike again.

Israel, like other nations, has committed terrible errors in the course of existence. The  biggest mistake was to occupy Gaza and the West Bank after the Six Day War in 1967 and build Jewish settlements there. One of these mistakes was corrected in 2005 when the Israelis unilaterally withdrew from Gaza. Unfortunately Hamas gained control of Gaza in 2007 and instead of developing its economy and normalising relations with the Israelis they have used it as a launch pad to fire rockets into Israel, culminating in the atrocity of October 7. The behaviour of Hamas has also had the effect of undermining support for a two state solution   in Israel. It is not just Netanyahu but ordinary Israelis who fear that if a Palestinian state were created on the West Bank, it would simply be used by Hamas or one of the other groups  to launch further attacks into Israel whose right to exist they have never accepted.


Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......27/11/23 10:00:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......27/11/23 22:26:00 Steven Rose
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......28/11/23 11:15:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......28/11/23 21:35:00 Philippa Bond
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......29/11/23 09:08:00 Robert Wheeler
         Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......30/11/23 12:27:00 Philippa Bond
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......29/11/23 14:56:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......30/11/23 21:30:00 Steven Rose
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......01/12/23 13:18:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......01/12/23 15:01:00 Philippa Bond
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......04/12/23 19:15:00 Jenny Stone
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......04/12/23 21:08:00 Robert Wheeler
                  Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......05/12/23 11:29:00 Philippa Bond
                     Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......05/12/23 14:03:00 Steven Rose
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......05/12/23 17:02:00 Michael Brown
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......05/12/23 17:19:00 Robert Wheeler
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......05/12/23 17:52:00 Philippa Bond
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......08/12/23 12:57:00 John Hawkes
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......12/12/23 22:51:00 Philippa Bond
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......12/12/23 23:52:00 Philippa Bond
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......30/12/23 18:44:00 Lucille Grant
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......08/12/23 12:53:00 John Hawkes
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......08/12/23 12:47:00 John Hawkes
                     Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......08/12/23 12:31:00 John Hawkes
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......08/12/23 17:24:00 Ivonne Holliday
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......08/12/23 21:43:00 Steven Rose
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......13/12/23 10:44:00 Ivonne Holliday
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......15/12/23 12:08:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......09/12/23 16:20:00 Philippa Bond
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......13/12/23 17:28:00 Steven Rose
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......14/12/23 23:12:00 Philippa Bond
         Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......15/12/23 11:50:00 Philippa Bond
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......15/12/23 14:16:00 Jane Carter
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......15/12/23 16:04:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......17/12/23 09:48:00 Philippa Bond
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......15/12/23 15:11:00 Steven Rose
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......17/12/23 09:27:00 Philippa Bond
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......17/12/23 10:07:00 Clifford Cowell
         Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......18/12/23 15:08:00 John Hawkes
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......18/12/23 16:12:00 Clifford Cowell
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......18/12/23 23:02:00 Philippa Bond
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......19/12/23 12:05:00 Steven Rose
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......17/12/23 20:17:00 Steven Rose
      Reply20/12/23 23:43:00 Richard Carter
         Re:Reply21/12/23 09:26:00 Robert Wheeler
            Re:Re:Reply21/12/23 09:46:00 Barbara Stevens
            Re:Re:Reply21/12/23 14:45:00 Richard Carter
         Re:Reply21/12/23 11:40:00 John Hawkes
            Re:Re:Reply21/12/23 14:54:00 Richard Carter
               Re:Re:Re:Reply21/12/23 15:03:00 Caroline Whitehead
               Re:Re:Re:Reply21/12/23 15:38:00 John Hawkes
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply21/12/23 17:01:00 Steven Rose
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply21/12/23 20:48:00 Richard Carter
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......21/12/23 23:59:00 Steven Rose
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 09:50:00 Richard Carter
         Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 14:19:00 Steven Rose
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 16:48:00 Richard Carter
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 17:48:00 John Hawkes
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......23/12/23 12:07:00 Richard Carter
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......24/12/23 09:57:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 15:08:00 Ivonne Holliday
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 17:42:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 18:34:00 Ivonne Holliday
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 15:57:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 16:21:00 Richard Carter
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......23/12/23 01:42:00 Ed Robinson
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......23/12/23 11:07:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......23/12/23 11:19:00 Caroline Whitehead
               Reply23/12/23 11:38:00 Michael Ixer
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......23/12/23 12:12:00 Richard Carter
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......24/12/23 11:44:00 John Hawkes
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......24/12/23 13:56:00 Richard Carter
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......24/12/23 15:03:00 Steven Rose
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...24/12/23 14:33:00 Steven Rose
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...24/12/23 15:15:00 Ed Robinson
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...29/12/23 17:44:00 Jonathan Callaway
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...30/12/23 15:09:00 Lucille Grant
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...30/12/23 17:08:00 Ivonne Holliday
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...30/12/23 23:23:00 Philippa Bond
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...30/12/23 23:35:00 Philippa Bond
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...31/12/23 09:36:00 Lucille Grant
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...31/12/23 16:09:00 Philippa Bond
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...31/12/23 16:17:00 Philippa Bond
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...31/12/23 17:41:00 Lucille Grant
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...31/12/23 17:42:00 Lucille Grant
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...31/12/23 18:49:00 Steven Rose
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...31/12/23 18:54:00 Lucille Grant
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...02/01/24 00:43:00 Joe Cairns
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...08/01/24 13:50:00 John Hawkes
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...08/01/24 15:22:00 John Hawkes
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...03/01/24 14:11:00 Philippa Bond
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...03/01/24 18:13:00 Philippa Bond
                                                   A new Nakba?03/01/24 19:24:00 Richard Carter
                                                      Re:A new Nakba?03/01/24 21:00:00 Robert Wheeler
                                                         Re:Re:A new Nakba?03/01/24 22:10:00 Steven Rose
                                                            Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?03/01/24 23:52:00 Richard Carter
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 08:01:00 Steven Rose
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 08:41:00 Richard Carter
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 21:48:00 Lucille Grant
                                                         Re:Re:A new Nakba?03/01/24 23:40:00 Richard Carter
                                                            Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 13:49:00 Philippa Bond
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 15:37:00 Steven Rose
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 16:54:00 Richard Carter
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 17:15:00 Richard Carter
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?07/01/24 13:27:00 John Hawkes
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?07/01/24 14:26:00 Barbara Stevens
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?07/01/24 20:39:00 Mike Warman
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?08/01/24 18:38:00 Lucille Grant
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?08/01/24 18:45:00 Philippa Bond
                                                         Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 21:44:00 Lucille Grant

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