Forum Message

Topic: Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......
Posted by: Steven Rose
Date/Time: 17/12/23 20:17:00

It is true that the the conflict in Gaza did not begin on October 7. But to pretend that the atrocity should just be seen as part of the ongoing struggle for Palestinian rights is morally bankrupt. It should not be necessary to repeat that Hamas did not just murder over 700 civilians on October 7 - they raped and mutilated women, they tied children together and burnt them alive, they desecrated the bodies of the dead and they sent the pictures of their horrible crimes back home to their families. What group fighting for human rights behaves in this way?

The implication that Israel is at war with Hamas because the Israelis regard themselves as the 'Chosen Nation' is an absurd antisemitic trope. Prior to October 7 Israel attempted a policy of containment, characterised by quite a bit of stick and some carrots. Hamas and Islamic Jihad used to fire rockets into Israel, the Israelis used to fire back and so it continued for twenty years, a bit like the situation regarding Hezbollah in Lebanon. The Israelis also implemented a blockade of Gaza in order to prevent Hamas from using imports like cement in order to build their military network of tunnels, not to mention stopping arms imports. At the same time the Israelis tried to normalise relations. They granted around 18 000 work visa last year to enable people from Gaza to earn money in Israel. Kibbutzniks on the Southern border, some of whom were killed or taken hostage on October 7, even used to ferry patients from Gaza to hospital in Israel. All this stopped on October 7. The enormity of the atrocity, which Hamas has threatened to repeat, has made it impossible for Israel to allow Hamas to remain in control in Gaza. What country can tolerate the existence across its border of a terrorist organisation dedicated to the extermination of its people?

A two state solution would be desirable. But the obstacle to peace is not, as some people imagine, just the refusal by Netanyahu's right wing government to dismantle the settlements on the West Bank. The real problem is the fear by many Israelis that even if an independent Palestinian state were created on the West Bank, the Palestinians would simply use it as a stepping stone to reclaim the whole of Israel, whose right to exist as a Jewish state they have never recognised. In other words, Israelis fear that the West Bank would become a terrorist state, just like Gaza, from which further attacks on Israel would be launched.
 


Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......27/11/23 10:00:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......27/11/23 22:26:00 Steven Rose
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......28/11/23 11:15:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......28/11/23 21:35:00 Philippa Bond
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......29/11/23 09:08:00 Robert Wheeler
         Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......30/11/23 12:27:00 Philippa Bond
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......29/11/23 14:56:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......30/11/23 21:30:00 Steven Rose
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......01/12/23 13:18:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......01/12/23 15:01:00 Philippa Bond
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......04/12/23 19:15:00 Jenny Stone
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......04/12/23 21:08:00 Robert Wheeler
                  Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......05/12/23 11:29:00 Philippa Bond
                     Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......05/12/23 14:03:00 Steven Rose
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......05/12/23 17:02:00 Michael Brown
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......05/12/23 17:19:00 Robert Wheeler
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......05/12/23 17:52:00 Philippa Bond
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......08/12/23 12:57:00 John Hawkes
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......12/12/23 22:51:00 Philippa Bond
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......12/12/23 23:52:00 Philippa Bond
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......30/12/23 18:44:00 Lucille Grant
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......08/12/23 12:53:00 John Hawkes
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......08/12/23 12:47:00 John Hawkes
                     Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......08/12/23 12:31:00 John Hawkes
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......08/12/23 17:24:00 Ivonne Holliday
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......08/12/23 21:43:00 Steven Rose
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......13/12/23 10:44:00 Ivonne Holliday
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......15/12/23 12:08:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......09/12/23 16:20:00 Philippa Bond
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......13/12/23 17:28:00 Steven Rose
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......14/12/23 23:12:00 Philippa Bond
         Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......15/12/23 11:50:00 Philippa Bond
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......15/12/23 14:16:00 Jane Carter
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......15/12/23 16:04:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......17/12/23 09:48:00 Philippa Bond
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......15/12/23 15:11:00 Steven Rose
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......17/12/23 09:27:00 Philippa Bond
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......17/12/23 10:07:00 Clifford Cowell
         Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......18/12/23 15:08:00 John Hawkes
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......18/12/23 16:12:00 Clifford Cowell
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......18/12/23 23:02:00 Philippa Bond
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......19/12/23 12:05:00 Steven Rose
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......17/12/23 20:17:00 Steven Rose
      Reply20/12/23 23:43:00 Richard Carter
         Re:Reply21/12/23 09:26:00 Robert Wheeler
            Re:Re:Reply21/12/23 09:46:00 Barbara Stevens
            Re:Re:Reply21/12/23 14:45:00 Richard Carter
         Re:Reply21/12/23 11:40:00 John Hawkes
            Re:Re:Reply21/12/23 14:54:00 Richard Carter
               Re:Re:Re:Reply21/12/23 15:03:00 Caroline Whitehead
               Re:Re:Re:Reply21/12/23 15:38:00 John Hawkes
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply21/12/23 17:01:00 Steven Rose
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply21/12/23 20:48:00 Richard Carter
   Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......21/12/23 23:59:00 Steven Rose
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 09:50:00 Richard Carter
         Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 14:19:00 Steven Rose
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 16:48:00 Richard Carter
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 17:48:00 John Hawkes
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......23/12/23 12:07:00 Richard Carter
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......24/12/23 09:57:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 15:08:00 Ivonne Holliday
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 17:42:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 18:34:00 Ivonne Holliday
      Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 15:57:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......22/12/23 16:21:00 Richard Carter
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......23/12/23 01:42:00 Ed Robinson
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......23/12/23 11:07:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......23/12/23 11:19:00 Caroline Whitehead
               Reply23/12/23 11:38:00 Michael Ixer
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......23/12/23 12:12:00 Richard Carter
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......24/12/23 11:44:00 John Hawkes
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......24/12/23 13:56:00 Richard Carter
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel......24/12/23 15:03:00 Steven Rose
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...24/12/23 14:33:00 Steven Rose
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...24/12/23 15:15:00 Ed Robinson
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...29/12/23 17:44:00 Jonathan Callaway
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...30/12/23 15:09:00 Lucille Grant
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...30/12/23 17:08:00 Ivonne Holliday
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...30/12/23 23:23:00 Philippa Bond
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...30/12/23 23:35:00 Philippa Bond
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...31/12/23 09:36:00 Lucille Grant
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...31/12/23 16:09:00 Philippa Bond
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...31/12/23 16:17:00 Philippa Bond
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...31/12/23 17:41:00 Lucille Grant
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...31/12/23 17:42:00 Lucille Grant
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...31/12/23 18:49:00 Steven Rose
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...31/12/23 18:54:00 Lucille Grant
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...02/01/24 00:43:00 Joe Cairns
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...08/01/24 13:50:00 John Hawkes
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...08/01/24 15:22:00 John Hawkes
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...03/01/24 14:11:00 Philippa Bond
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Peaceful march of Jews in London to support Israel...03/01/24 18:13:00 Philippa Bond
                                                   A new Nakba?03/01/24 19:24:00 Richard Carter
                                                      Re:A new Nakba?03/01/24 21:00:00 Robert Wheeler
                                                         Re:Re:A new Nakba?03/01/24 22:10:00 Steven Rose
                                                            Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?03/01/24 23:52:00 Richard Carter
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 08:01:00 Steven Rose
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 08:41:00 Richard Carter
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 21:48:00 Lucille Grant
                                                         Re:Re:A new Nakba?03/01/24 23:40:00 Richard Carter
                                                            Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 13:49:00 Philippa Bond
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 15:37:00 Steven Rose
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 16:54:00 Richard Carter
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 17:15:00 Richard Carter
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?07/01/24 13:27:00 John Hawkes
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?07/01/24 14:26:00 Barbara Stevens
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?07/01/24 20:39:00 Mike Warman
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?08/01/24 18:38:00 Lucille Grant
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A new Nakba?08/01/24 18:45:00 Philippa Bond
                                                         Re:Re:A new Nakba?04/01/24 21:44:00 Lucille Grant

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