Forum Message

Topic: Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.
Posted by: Steven Rose
Date/Time: 24/07/25 13:33:00

Hi Richard

Thanks for your post. Among the critics of Israel on the Forum, you are the first person to have attempted to outline a way forward rather than post a litany of accusations against Israel on information supplied by the Hamas ‘Ministry of Health’.

But let’s get a few things out of the way first.  Your statistic of 60 000 dead may be correct but it is likely that almost half of this number were Hamas militants, including some of the psychopaths who carried out the massacre of October 7. 

Hamas do not at present constitute an existential threat to the State of Israel but they certainly constitute a threat to Israeli civilians living along the southern border, a thousand of whom were butchered on October 7. If a member of your family had been killed, I don’t think you would so easily downplay the threat posed by Hamas. And both Hamas and Hezbollah are armed by Iran, a nation of 90 million who are trying to obtain a nuclear weapon and who have openly called for the destruction of Israel.

I regret to say that your statement that ‘the 7th October massacre was a very serious assault but it resulted less from Hamas’ military strength than unforgivable intelligence and a disgraceful lack of border security’ is an appalling example of victim shaming. You are in effect blaming the massacre on the military incompetence of the Israelis rather than on Hamas’ savagery. It’s a dreadful thing to say. I dare say you were just trying to make the point that the massacre was avoidable. I am not even sure that is true. No country, however well prepared, can entirely prevent attacks by a vicious and resourceful enemy.

But let’s get to your outlined solution. You suggest that ‘Israel will just have to talk seriously to Hamas to reach some kind of agreement’. Well the Israelis are engaged in negotiations with Hamas in Quatar. The problem is that Hamas are only willing to return the hostages if Israel agrees to withdraw from Gaza, leaving Hamas in control of the territory once again. Do you think Israel should accept these terms? I don’t. And I am sure that, not just Netanyahu, but the overwhelming majority of Israelis would find Hamas’ terms unacceptable. Why would any nation agree to the continued presence on its border of a fanatical terrorist group who have vowed to repeat the massacre of civilians ‘again and again’?

My solution is that Hamas should surrender, return the hostages and leave Gaza, which is more than some of the deserve, after which the Palestinians should be allowed to rebuild their lives under a moderate leadership. To be honest, I am not sure where that moderate leadership can be found right now. Mahmoud Abbas would probably agree to take over Gaza. He is prepared to coexist with Israel but he is old and deeply unpopular on the West Bank.


Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.20/07/25 23:19:00 Gerry Boyce
   Reply21/07/25 07:28:00 Sue Hammond
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.21/07/25 15:29:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.21/07/25 19:41:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.21/07/25 21:16:00 Michael Brigo
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 10:21:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.21/07/25 23:33:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 10:31:00 Philippa Bond
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 10:38:00 Lucille Grant
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 10:39:00 Lucille Grant
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 12:20:00 John Hawkes
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 12:36:00 Alexander MacLeod
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 13:48:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 13:01:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 13:14:00 Robert Wheeler
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.23/07/25 10:44:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.23/07/25 10:47:00 Gerry Boyce
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.23/07/25 12:58:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.23/07/25 13:38:00 Robert Wheeler
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.23/07/25 14:03:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.23/07/25 22:56:00 Gerry Boyce
      Reply23/07/25 23:07:00 Ivonne Holliday
         Re:Reply24/07/25 08:28:00 Steven Rose
            Re:Re:Reply24/07/25 12:10:00 Richard Carter
               Re:Re:Re:Reply24/07/25 12:20:00 Gerry Boyce
               Re:Re:Re:Reply24/07/25 13:16:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Reply24/07/25 16:48:00 Ivonne Holliday
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 11:56:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 13:22:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 13:33:00 Steven Rose
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 16:06:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 17:31:00 Steven Rose
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 18:33:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 19:50:00 Steven Rose
         Reply24/07/25 20:31:00 Michael Brigo
            Re:Reply24/07/25 21:15:00 Steven Rose
               Reply24/07/25 22:24:00 Michael Brigo
                  Re:Reply25/07/25 14:27:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 22:06:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 23:46:00 Steven Rose
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 14:10:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 13:55:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 12:30:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 13:43:00 Steven Rose
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 14:02:00 Richard Carter
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 14:17:00 John Hawkes
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 14:32:00 Robert Wheeler
               Reply25/07/25 14:47:00 Michael Brigo
                  Re:Reply25/07/25 15:03:00 John Hawkes
                     Re:Re:Reply25/07/25 16:46:00 Michael Brigo
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 15:30:00 Ivonne Holliday
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 16:48:00 Michael Brigo
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 14:11:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 14:41:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 15:25:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 14:59:00 Gerry Boyce
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 15:17:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 15:47:00 Steven Rose
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 16:30:00 Ivonne Holliday
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 16:52:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 14:31:00 John Hawkes
         Reply08/08/26 17:35:00 Ramsay Bolton
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 15:41:00 Ivonne Holliday
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 15:51:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 16:04:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 16:24:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 16:38:00 Steven Rose
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 21:11:00 Ivonne Holliday
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 21:31:00 Gerry Boyce
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 22:17:00 Michael Brigo
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 23:25:00 Steven Rose
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 23:33:00 Ed Robinson
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 00:54:00 Steven Rose
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 10:57:00 Ed Robinson
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 14:48:00 John Hawkes
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 21:15:00 Ed Robinson
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 14:44:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 07:27:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 15:22:00 John Hawkes
   Reply26/07/25 10:04:00 Richard Carter
      Re:Reply26/07/25 15:26:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Reply26/07/25 15:39:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 13:21:00 Gerry Boyce
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 13:35:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 13:54:00 Robert Wheeler
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 14:27:00 Michael Brigo
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 15:44:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 18:53:00 Michael Brigo
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 15:28:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 19:04:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 20:24:00 Steven Rose
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 20:52:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 23:09:00 Steven Rose
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 23:48:00 Philippa Bond
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 00:38:00 Gerry Boyce
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 01:07:00 Steven Rose
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 10:05:00 Ivonne Holliday
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 11:31:00 Steven Rose
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 12:04:00 Richard Carter
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 14:37:00 Ivonne Holliday
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 12:25:00 John Hawkes
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 12:11:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 13:18:00 Steven Rose
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:16:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 13:43:00 Gerry Boyce
   Reply27/07/25 13:45:00 Michael Brigo
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 14:02:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 14:37:00 Steven Rose
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 14:42:00 Richard Carter
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:26:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:24:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:19:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 14:36:00 Richard Carter
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:24:00 Gerry Boyce
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:38:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 16:18:00 Richard Carter
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:32:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:59:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 16:24:00 Robert Wheeler
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 23:05:00 Richard Carter
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 12:03:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 11:56:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 13:17:00 Gerry Boyce
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 16:04:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 16:33:00 Steven Rose
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 21:42:00 Michael Brigo
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 22:15:00 Steven Rose
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 23:41:00 Gerry Boyce
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 12:14:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 23:18:00 Richard Carter
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 00:02:00 Steven Rose
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 11:09:00 Alexander MacLeod
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 12:24:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 12:12:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 15:28:00 Steven Rose
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 16:21:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 16:47:00 Gerry Boyce
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 17:29:00 Steven Rose
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 17:53:00 Gerry Boyce
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.29/07/25 12:33:00 John Hawkes
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 17:45:00 Ivonne Holliday
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 19:24:00 Steven Rose
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 21:45:00 Gerry Boyce
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.29/07/25 12:51:00 John Hawkes
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.08/08/26 19:19:00 Philippa Bond

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