Forum Message

Topic: Re:Re:Reply
Posted by: Richard Carter
Date/Time: 24/07/25 12:10:00

All right, I’ll try to take up your challenge.

The first thing to do is to stop the killing; so far, counting deaths from starvation and unrecovered bodies, the toll must be well over 60,000 deaths and probably at least 3 times that in injuries. All of which has been perpetrated in 3 years and with what effect? Has Hamas been destroyed (the declared aim of the IDF)? Of course not, so how long will it go on before even Netanyahu realises it’s not working?

The answer, however unpalatable, is that the Israeli government will have to talk properly to Hamas. The great barrier to that is the foolish and demonstrably false claim that Israel faces an existential threat from Hamas, based on that organisation’s charter. I accept, of course, that the aim is in their charter, and it’s an odious threat. But to justify the endless killing and maiming on the claim that it makes an existential threat to the existence of Israel confuses the aim with the capacity to carry it out.

Let’s take a parallel (of course it’s not an entirely serious one): I loathe Elon Musk and would really like to destroy his organisation, and I could even declare that as my prime aim in life. But if I did so, would Musk quake in his boots? Of course not, so why do Israel and its supporters claim that Hamas presents such an existential threat? It has some thousands (precise number unknown) of guerrillas armed with guns, home-made rockets and ill intentions, whereas Israel has one of the most powerful armies in the world, with hundreds of warplanes, thousands of armoured vehicles and massive personnel. The very idea is wholly mistaken. Admittedly, the 7th October massacre was a very serious assault but it resulted less from Hamas’ military strength than unforgivable lapses in intelligence and a disgraceful lack of border security (not, please note, that I am most definitely not blaming Israel in any way for the attack).

So, as I said, however distasteful it will be, Israel will just have to talk seriously to Hamas to reach some kind of agreement – whist, of course, defending itself against repeat attacks like that of 7th October. When – as now – continued killing gets you nowhere, talking is the only possible solution. Of course it won’t be easy, to put it very mildly, but endless deaths aren’t working and it’s time for a rethink. Details of the talks would have to be worked out (as would what would happen to the devastated area that is Gaza) and I certainly don’t make light of that. There will also be complaints and threats from the extremists in Israel’s coalition like Ben Gvir and that nasty little fascist Smotrich, but seriously, what is the alternative to talking?


Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.20/07/25 23:19:00 Gerry Boyce
   Reply21/07/25 07:28:00 Sue Hammond
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.21/07/25 15:29:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.21/07/25 19:41:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.21/07/25 21:16:00 Michael Brigo
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 10:21:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.21/07/25 23:33:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 10:31:00 Philippa Bond
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 10:38:00 Lucille Grant
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 10:39:00 Lucille Grant
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 12:20:00 John Hawkes
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 12:36:00 Alexander MacLeod
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 13:48:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 13:01:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.22/07/25 13:14:00 Robert Wheeler
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.23/07/25 10:44:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.23/07/25 10:47:00 Gerry Boyce
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.23/07/25 12:58:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.23/07/25 13:38:00 Robert Wheeler
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.23/07/25 14:03:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.23/07/25 22:56:00 Gerry Boyce
      Reply23/07/25 23:07:00 Ivonne Holliday
         Re:Reply24/07/25 08:28:00 Steven Rose
            Re:Re:Reply24/07/25 12:10:00 Richard Carter
               Re:Re:Re:Reply24/07/25 12:20:00 Gerry Boyce
               Re:Re:Re:Reply24/07/25 13:16:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Reply24/07/25 16:48:00 Ivonne Holliday
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 11:56:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 13:22:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 13:33:00 Steven Rose
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 16:06:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 17:31:00 Steven Rose
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 18:33:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 19:50:00 Steven Rose
         Reply24/07/25 20:31:00 Michael Brigo
            Re:Reply24/07/25 21:15:00 Steven Rose
               Reply24/07/25 22:24:00 Michael Brigo
                  Re:Reply25/07/25 14:27:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 22:06:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.24/07/25 23:46:00 Steven Rose
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 14:10:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 13:55:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 12:30:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 13:43:00 Steven Rose
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 14:02:00 Richard Carter
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 14:17:00 John Hawkes
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 14:32:00 Robert Wheeler
               Reply25/07/25 14:47:00 Michael Brigo
                  Re:Reply25/07/25 15:03:00 John Hawkes
                     Re:Re:Reply25/07/25 16:46:00 Michael Brigo
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 15:30:00 Ivonne Holliday
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 16:48:00 Michael Brigo
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 14:11:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 14:41:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 15:25:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 14:59:00 Gerry Boyce
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 15:17:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 15:47:00 Steven Rose
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 16:30:00 Ivonne Holliday
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 16:52:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 14:31:00 John Hawkes
         Reply08/08/26 17:35:00 Ramsay Bolton
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 15:41:00 Ivonne Holliday
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 15:51:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 16:04:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 16:24:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 16:38:00 Steven Rose
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 21:11:00 Ivonne Holliday
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 21:31:00 Gerry Boyce
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 22:17:00 Michael Brigo
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 23:25:00 Steven Rose
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.25/07/25 23:33:00 Ed Robinson
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 00:54:00 Steven Rose
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 10:57:00 Ed Robinson
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 14:48:00 John Hawkes
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 21:15:00 Ed Robinson
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 14:44:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 07:27:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 15:22:00 John Hawkes
   Reply26/07/25 10:04:00 Richard Carter
      Re:Reply26/07/25 15:26:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Reply26/07/25 15:39:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 13:21:00 Gerry Boyce
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 13:35:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 13:54:00 Robert Wheeler
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 14:27:00 Michael Brigo
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 15:44:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 18:53:00 Michael Brigo
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 15:28:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 19:04:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 20:24:00 Steven Rose
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 20:52:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 23:09:00 Steven Rose
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.26/07/25 23:48:00 Philippa Bond
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 00:38:00 Gerry Boyce
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 01:07:00 Steven Rose
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 10:05:00 Ivonne Holliday
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 11:31:00 Steven Rose
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 12:04:00 Richard Carter
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 14:37:00 Ivonne Holliday
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 12:25:00 John Hawkes
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 12:11:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 13:18:00 Steven Rose
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:16:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 13:43:00 Gerry Boyce
   Reply27/07/25 13:45:00 Michael Brigo
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 14:02:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 14:37:00 Steven Rose
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 14:42:00 Richard Carter
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:26:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:24:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:19:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 14:36:00 Richard Carter
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:24:00 Gerry Boyce
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:38:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 16:18:00 Richard Carter
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:32:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 15:59:00 Gerry Boyce
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 16:24:00 Robert Wheeler
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 23:05:00 Richard Carter
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 12:03:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 11:56:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 13:17:00 Gerry Boyce
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 16:04:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 16:33:00 Steven Rose
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 21:42:00 Michael Brigo
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 22:15:00 Steven Rose
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 23:41:00 Gerry Boyce
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 12:14:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.27/07/25 23:18:00 Richard Carter
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 00:02:00 Steven Rose
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 11:09:00 Alexander MacLeod
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 12:24:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 12:12:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 15:28:00 Steven Rose
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 16:21:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 16:47:00 Gerry Boyce
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 17:29:00 Steven Rose
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 17:53:00 Gerry Boyce
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.29/07/25 12:33:00 John Hawkes
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 17:45:00 Ivonne Holliday
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 19:24:00 Steven Rose
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.28/07/25 21:45:00 Gerry Boyce
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.29/07/25 12:51:00 John Hawkes
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pope calls for an immediate end to the barbarity in Palestine.08/08/26 19:19:00 Philippa Bond

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