| Topic: | Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply | |
| Posted by: | Jonathan Callaway | |
| Date/Time: | 22/11/25 11:07:00 |
| This is a really appalling "deal" from Ukraine's perspective, although if we could trust the Russians to negotiate in good faith (and Ukraine certainly does not believe that) then a few clauses in it that might make a sensible starting point for negotiations. But of course the terms were agreed between the US and Russia with no input from either Ukraine nor the Europeans. So the prospects are not good. This war was started by Russia not Ukraine and in reality started over 10 years ago when Russia illegally annexed Crimea, then parts of the Donbas. None of these land grabs has been recognised internationally, at least not so far. What did Ukraine do to deserve this? Nothing other than having the misfortune to have been part of late unlamented Soviet Union, then claiming the right for the Ukrainian people to choose independence and a westward looking democratic government. Russia is pursuing a literally imperialist agenda that any student of the British and other European empires will recognise from 18th and 19th century history. I thought that age was long behind us but obviously it lingers on in the Russian mind, with deadly consequences for those in their sights - and that of course is far more than just Ukraine. Just look at Russian history to see where their empire once extended to and where they would love to extend it too once again. Ukraine are fighting an existential war. Their view, based on their bitter experience over the centuries, is give the Russians an inch and they will take a mile. There are some supposed guarantees in the proposed deal that Russia will not restart the war again, but Ukraine rightly demands watertight security guarantees which once upon a time might have been provided by a UN-led force but today will have to be provided by the Europeans, ideally of course with American backing - but they clearly have no desire to do that. And of course the deal prohibits NATO troops from being stationed in Ukraine so just how can that ever work? Ukraine, incidentally, is not at the point of collapse, far from it. Their dogged defence has meant that Russia has advanced on average 25 miles in three years depending on which bit of the front line you look at. Russia controls less Ukrainian territory now than it did in the first year of the war and yet they have lost an estimated one million troops killed or injured. That's hardly an all-conquering force! Why is Trump agreeing to a deal rejected by Ukraine, all European powers with the possible exception of Hungary, nearly every European politician (even including his best mate Farage), nearly all the press in the UK and elsewhere and even many of his fellow Americans, including some Republicans? Check the terms of the deal - the Russians are offering access to all sorts of access to their natural resources including rare earth minerals: "mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centres, rare earth metal extraction projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities." And of course Trump sees any sort of peace in Ukraine as another step towards the Noble Peace Prize he probably won't get anyway. What next? The Ukrainians desperately want peace but not on these terms. They will try to negotiate but Trump is now back to his position in February "you don't hold any cards", meaning he will try to bludgeon them into accepting the terms as they currently stand. I suspect they will choose to fight on. Capitulation is not an option. It's an utter tragedy. |
| Topic | Date Posted | Posted By |
| Trump shows his true colours (see the latest report in the Telegraph) | 21/11/25 17:12:00 | Richard Carter |
| Reply | 21/11/25 17:43:00 | Michael Ixer |
| Re:Trump shows his true colours (see the latest report in the Telegraph) | 21/11/25 18:24:00 | Ivonne Holliday |
| Re:Re:Trump shows his true colours (see the latest report in the Telegraph) | 21/11/25 19:16:00 | Steven Rose |
| Re:Re:Re:Trump shows his true colours (see the latest report in the Telegraph) | 21/11/25 20:23:00 | Ivonne Holliday |
| Re:Re:Re:Trump shows his true colours (see the latest report in the Telegraph) | 21/11/25 20:33:00 | Richard Carter |
| Reply | 22/11/25 00:31:00 | Michael Ixer |
| Reply | 21/11/25 22:10:00 | Sue Hammond |
| Re:Reply | 21/11/25 22:57:00 | Gerry Boyce |
| Reply | 21/11/25 23:56:00 | Michael Ixer |
| Re:Reply | 22/11/25 00:42:00 | Ed Robinson |
| Reply | 22/11/25 01:25:00 | Michael Ixer |
| Re:Re:Reply | 22/11/25 01:26:00 | Steven Rose |
| Re:Re:Re:Reply | 22/11/25 02:34:00 | Ed Robinson |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply | 22/11/25 10:11:00 | Richard Carter |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply | 23/11/25 17:35:00 | Ed Robinson |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply | 22/11/25 11:07:00 | Jonathan Callaway |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply | 23/11/25 18:18:00 | Ed Robinson |
| Re:Reply | 22/11/25 10:06:00 | Ivonne Holliday |
| Re:Re:Reply | 22/11/25 12:47:00 | Sue Hammond |
| Re:Re:Re:Reply | 22/11/25 13:00:00 | Jonathan Callaway |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply | 22/11/25 14:31:00 | Gerry Boyce |
| Re:Re:Re:Reply | 22/11/25 13:43:00 | Ivonne Holliday |
| Reply | 22/11/25 11:25:00 | Michael Ixer |
| Ukrainians; Russians: much of a muchness ? | 22/11/25 12:50:00 | John Hawkes |
| Re:Ukrainians; Russians: much of a muchness ? | 22/11/25 12:56:00 | Jonathan Callaway |
| Re:Re:Ukrainians; Russians: much of a muchness ? | 22/11/25 13:12:00 | Sue Hammond |
| Re:Re:Re:Ukrainians; Russians: much of a muchness ? | 22/11/25 13:28:00 | Robert Wheeler |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Ukrainians; Russians: much of a muchness ? | 22/11/25 14:03:00 | Michael Brigo |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Ukrainians; Russians: much of a muchness ? | 22/11/25 14:07:00 | Ivonne Holliday |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Ukrainians; Russians: much of a muchness ? | 22/11/25 16:32:00 | Robert Wheeler |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Ukrainians; Russians: much of a muchness ? | 22/11/25 16:59:00 | Michael Ixer |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Ukrainians; Russians: much of a muchness ? | 22/11/25 17:31:00 | Gerry Boyce |
| Reply | 22/11/25 14:58:00 | Michael Ixer |
| Reply | 22/11/25 15:26:00 | Michael Ixer |
| Reply | 22/11/25 14:07:00 | Michael Ixer |
| Reply | 22/11/25 14:13:00 | Michael Ixer |
| Re:Reply | 22/11/25 14:45:00 | Gerry Boyce |
| Reply | 22/11/25 15:02:00 | Michael Ixer |
| Re:Reply | 22/11/25 15:06:00 | Gerry Boyce |
| Re:Re:Reply | 22/11/25 15:03:00 | Gerry Boyce |
| Re:Re:Re:Reply | 22/11/25 18:34:00 | Michael Brigo |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply | 22/11/25 21:27:00 | Gerry Boyce |