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Topic: Reply
Posted by: Michael Ixer
Date/Time: 17/01/26 15:23:00

I'm not sure this discussion is going anywhere. I obviously disagree with Mr Hawkes on a number of issues but I'm not sure working for IBM circa 1970 onwards would warrant branding anyone a facist or Nazi?

Yes, IBM's German subsidiary apparently did assist the Third Reich with census data that enabled in the identification of jews, and aided the Holocaust, and it seens IBM's New York office was aware of this. Interestingly, I understand the machines were leased to the Third Reich so apparently, at least pre WWII, there was likely money fed back regularly to the US but to be honest I'm unaware of the details.

However, when I wrote my first computer programs at IC in the early 70s to run on an IBM7094 I don't think I or any of my fellow students gave any consideration to the politics of the company other than, like CDC the other major systems at IC and London University, they were built by commercial US companies for a profit. Rather that criticise one individual, shouldn't we criticise all the major UK companies, government departments, universities, etc that invested in IBM systems (often instead of buying British ICL systems backin the 1970s/80s) and whose procurement departments would have looked at IBM's commercial background?

I don't think at that time IBM's involvement with the Third Reich was known and I guess the senior management had changed since the war? I think most criticism of IBM I remember was its aggressive sales force, trying to perpetuate the "no one ever got fired for buying IBM"? And that certainly wasn't the case of IBM PCs with the rise of Compaq and other IBM compatible PCs. Also interesting, that in the late 80s I think I was supporting my company's application solution to a prospective customer on an IBM RS/6000 while the two competitors were proposing applications based on an IBM AS400 and IBM Series/1 (or was it an IBM9370, it was several decades ago).

And, as the Artemis rocket heads for the launch pad and a return to the Moon, perhaps remember the US space programme was built on the knowledge of Germans who build the V1 and V2s that were aimed at London?

I think a lot of people in the US didn’t want to get involved in WWII, and my understanding is many might have had pro German sympathies (that's where some emigrated from to the US) but time moves on ...

Over and out, as these discussions are becoming a waste of time.



Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Iran13/01/26 22:50:00 Gerry Boyce
   Re:Iran14/01/26 10:41:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Iran14/01/26 11:01:00 Gerry Boyce
   Re:Iran14/01/26 11:00:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Iran14/01/26 12:34:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Iran14/01/26 22:58:00 Steven Rose
         Re:Re:Re:Iran14/01/26 23:05:00 David Ainsworth
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Iran15/01/26 11:32:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Iran15/01/26 07:29:00 Michael Brigo
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Iran15/01/26 08:26:00 Steven Rose
         Re:Re:Re:Iran15/01/26 11:03:00 Gerry Boyce
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Iran15/01/26 11:14:00 Robert Wheeler
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Iran15/01/26 11:18:00 Lucille Grant
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Iran15/01/26 11:26:00 Gerry Boyce
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Iran15/01/26 11:27:00 Gerry Boyce
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Iran15/01/26 11:59:00 John Hawkes
                  From far beyond the reach of reason15/01/26 12:01:00 David Ainsworth
                     Re:From far beyond the reach of reason15/01/26 12:21:00 John Hawkes
                        Re:Re:From far beyond the reach of reason16/01/26 08:51:00 Michael Brigo
                           Re:Re:Re:From far beyond the reach of reason16/01/26 11:13:00 John Hawkes
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:From far beyond the reach of reason16/01/26 12:15:00 Michael Brigo
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:From far beyond the reach of reason16/01/26 13:30:00 John Hawkes
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:From far beyond the reach of reason16/01/26 14:19:00 Michael Brigo
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:From far beyond the reach of reason16/01/26 15:39:00 John Hawkes
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:From far beyond the reach of reason16/01/26 16:35:00 Michael Brigo
                                    Reply16/01/26 16:52:00 Sue Hammond
                                       Re:Reply16/01/26 17:16:00 Michael Brigo
                           Re:Re:Re:From far beyond the reach of reason16/01/26 17:10:00 Andy Pike
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:From far beyond the reach of reason16/01/26 17:15:00 Michael Brigo
                                 Reply16/01/26 21:58:00 Sue Hammond
                                    Re:Reply17/01/26 09:47:00 Michael Brigo
                                       Re:Re:Reply17/01/26 10:32:00 Andy Pike
                                          Reply17/01/26 11:19:00 Michael Brigo
                                             Re:Reply17/01/26 12:14:00 Sue Hammond
                                                Re:Re:Reply17/01/26 12:36:00 Michael Brigo
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Reply17/01/26 12:47:00 Sue Hammond
                                          Re:Re:Re:Reply17/01/26 12:05:00 Gerry Boyce
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply17/01/26 12:31:00 Andy Pike
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply17/01/26 12:34:00 Michael Brigo
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply17/01/26 13:41:00 Andy Pike
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply17/01/26 14:20:00 Lucille Grant
                                                Reply17/01/26 15:23:00 Michael Ixer
                                                   Re:Reply17/01/26 16:01:00 John Hawkes
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply17/01/26 16:13:00 John Hawkes
                                       Re:Re:Reply18/01/26 14:52:00 John Hawkes
                                          Re:Re:Re:Reply18/01/26 17:58:00 Gerry Boyce
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply18/01/26 19:03:00 Michael Brigo
                                    Re:Reply17/01/26 15:30:00 John Hawkes
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Iran15/01/26 18:19:00 Lucille Grant
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Iran15/01/26 11:56:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Iran15/01/26 13:01:00 Gerry Boyce
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Iran15/01/26 13:37:00 John Hawkes
   Re:Iran15/01/26 16:03:00 John Hawkes
      Re:Re:Iran16/01/26 11:01:00 Steven Rose
         Re:Re:Re:Iran16/01/26 11:29:00 John Hawkes
         Re:Re:Re:Iran16/01/26 12:03:00 David Ainsworth
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Iran16/01/26 13:57:00 John Hawkes
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Iran16/01/26 16:56:00 John Hawkes
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Iran16/01/26 17:17:00 Michael Brigo
      Re:Re:Iran16/01/26 11:07:00 John Hawkes

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